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耶稣发起了何样的群体?

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耶稣发起了何样的群体?

帖子 由 timmy 于 周五 十一月 30, 2012 1:38 pm

我在一个英文群里问:
Did Jesus teach the disciples to start groups of distinctive people, who alone had received special grace from God, and were exclusive toward outsiders?
耶稣有否教导门徒开展特别人群的群体,只有他们得到了神恩典,是与外人分割的群体?

群里收到了一些有趣的回答,选录如下:
Sophie:....I believe God has given to all, but only some had recieved and are living in its reality. But unlike traditionalists who say those who have not received are excluded until they also receive, I believe all is included in the family of God. Some just don't realize it and exclude themselves due to one misunderstanding or another about God. The Gospel, to me, is the Good News that everyone has been included all along!
我相信上帝已赐予所有人了,但只有接受的人活在其中。而不是传统主义者说的:没有接受的人是被拒于门外,除非他们接受。我相信所有人都被包括在神家中。只是有些人不知道,自己把自己拒于门外,因为种种对神的误解。福音乃是说:所有人老早就被接纳了!

Kerri:They gathered to be instruments of the Holy Spirit. To teach, pray, give and love others... And found God's love.
他们聚集一起,作为圣灵的器皿。去教导、祈祷、施与、和关爱他人...并经验上帝的爱。

Dan: Never did Jesus teach any disciples to start any kind of Group at all. All groups that are started by men and denominated are factions of men and not God. Disciples met together as they did in their normal way of society whether it be in a Temple or house to house. There was no such terminology as starting a group.
耶稣压根没有教导门徒开展什么团体。所有人发展的支流团体,都是人的分裂,不是神要作的。门徒聚在一起,是当时社会的日常社交,或在殿院子里、或一家一家的聚会。压根没有“开展团体”的观念。

我:Well, a lot of Christians have been reading the New Testament as if it was written in a special language separated from its 1st century social settings. They see "THE CHURCH" as a big topic in the New Testament.
很多基督徒一直以为新约圣经是用一种与世隔绝的语言写成的,与第一世纪的社会情况毫无关系。他们认为“教会”是圣经里一个大题目。
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回复: 耶稣发起了何样的群体?

帖子 由 不是吧 (或退隐) 于 周三 十二月 05, 2012 2:50 am

Very Happy 不信派的英文群。
我代表华人基督教打倒这个群!
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貌似要跟从耶稣
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回复: 耶稣发起了何样的群体?

帖子 由 timmy 于 周三 十二月 05, 2012 11:52 am

不是吧! 写道:: Very Happy 不信派的英文群。
我代表华人基督教打倒这个群!


由timmy于周三 十二月 05, 2012 12:17 pm进行了最后一次编辑,总共编辑了1次
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timmy
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回复: 耶稣发起了何样的群体?

帖子 由 timmy 于 周三 十二月 05, 2012 12:09 pm

Dan: actually there is no such thing as a "church" as many of our translations have translated the word "ekklesia". The Greek word ekklesia does not translate into a word that refers to a place or a religion but into a word that simple refers to people. That is the difference between the use of the word "ekklesia" as used in the first century and the English word "church" as used in this century. The two does not match. There were no churches where people would go out and start one but there were communities within societies that was started by Jesus and his apostles when they preached the gospel. The product of a person obeying the gospel was another one added to the community by Jesus. There was no churches to join.
我们很多翻译本把“ekklesia”翻译成“教会”,实际上根本没有所为的“教会”。希腊文“ekklesia”的意思并非什么地点、也不是什么宗教组织,它的意思乃是人群。这是第一世纪“ekklesia”一词,和今天“教会”一词的差异。两者毫不吻合。当时并没有什么教会可让人参加、或被人建立的;而是当耶稣与门徒传讲好消息时,在社区里面一些社群出现了。当一个人顺从了这个好消息,自然就成为社群的一员了。当时并没有什么“教会”可加入的。
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